/tits/

Being a nurse really isn't cutting out to be enough, huh ? Haha. This chick is craving attention
Damn!!!
She definitely got wins
Holy fuck, she's amazing!

Thanks!
I subbed to her onlyfans. She do dildo and b/g stuff buts it’s ppv and she got some beautiful suckable big ass tits and nice dick sucking lips but she don’t got no azz at all 😂😂
Ok no snitching but what's her OF name?
Most Mexican chicks with big tits don't have asses at all. It's weirdly common. Unless they paid for an ass
>>116252

Omg, thank you so much!!!

Honestly, I don't care if she has no ass. She has titties for days! It's fine if a woman has one or the other. But if she's completely flat, get her away from me, lol.

This woman is super hot, though.
>>116258
where is the dude asking "has she done anything with a BBC?" rofl
>>116274
In another thread upsetting the guy that says nigger a lot.
>>116274
She got bbc stuff? Imma have to ask her on onlyfans. She said she got b/g stuff. But most of her pics are focus on her face and tits. She really has no azz at all lol
She's fuckin perfect
Anybody know the OFor got a rip?
Dear lord what is her OF :D
>>116250
How you not going to provide the OF? Smfh
>>116323
Cause y’all be snitching
>>116326
No one even know she had OF if you didn't mention it. You even posted a pic that no one would have bro. Snitching? smfh
>>116332
I posted wins on here numerous on times and some simp always ends up telling. I posted one just to give y’all something
Leave that guy alone not all heros wear capes
True. Thanks for the pic
>>116323
Her OF is allnaturalmelival
(169 KB, 1125x2000, FB1dlf0VEAsiC7I.jpeg)
From the looks of it shes got ass. Enough to eat out of and slap the fuck out of it countless times. Some of these dudes saying otherwise are blind as fuck lol
I don't see her lasting long

She's showing her goods in a family IG (never ends well). Her name and job and kids are completely public.

She is either gonna stop completely after getting even more attention, since this post is gonna gain her more followers and messages, which equals more creeps and snitches. Or she is gonna disappear and come back in a new name and be more selective on who she adds (thanks creeps) or she can double down and just show more, and end up more public with her "spicier" pages.
Yeah never ends well. Well we shall see what happens next. She's fire though. Beautiful woman.
Damn man. You leaked all her shit! She’s eventually gonna find out and delete her OF Man U dudes know how to Ruin a good thing fucking prevs
This is all from her Twitter, my guy. Except that one nipple reveal. Relax
Its literally all her twitter that i posted. I even gave up the twitter username she uses lmao. Damn dudes be stressing over nothing. If it helps. Save the images on your phone or pc and move on from crying.
Just keep thread alive. She recently posted content. Shes might be note worthy of additional content
Oh yea that ass bent over is asking for it.
Well, I definitely know who to subscribe to next. She's top tier for me. Beautiful face, nice lips, amazing huge tits, and nice round ass. I'd wife her if I ever had the chance, haha.
Bump
I just wanna put my dick between those tits. I asked her if she has tit fuk vids and she said she’s still getting used to doing those kind of explicit things on cam. But soon she’s gonna make it happen. I can see her becoming a full blown amateur porn star.
>>116518
Damn! She's fucking hot. Thanks for sharing.
>>116393
Yeah I can totally see her losing her six figure a year job and having her husband or boyfriend and her kids if we know if she even has any finds out. You guys get to fricken paranoid. Relax
>>116544
She does have kids. Two twin daughters they’re on her IG. As far as a husband goes…don’t see a ring on her finger. But she’s definitely getting dicked down because she has a doggy style sex vids that she wants $100 for
>>116554
So she's another mila santos
She's 100% married

She's 34, She's not mentioning her husband and not showing him to entice the fact that guys would subscribe to her page more.

Which means he basically came up with the idea and she went along with it to pay the bills. One of the oldest tricks in the simp book.

So, if your really gonna spend money on this chick and attempt $100 just to see her fuck and try and get to smash, gonna be shit out of luck
Mercedes is her husbands last name
>>116603

I'm not surprised that she's married. She's a keeper. I wonder what her personality is like?

And she's a mother of two? God damn, she still looks good.
>>116381
damm viva la mexico🇲🇽
>>116663
That is a nice wide open pussy dude.
Keep them coming, great job.
She good for a goblina
>>116663

The mind of pussy you can just tell has birthed many kids. Super fuckin wide. Always wet. Easy to fuck
YUhSMGNITTZMeTl0WldkaExtNTZMMlp2YkdSbGNpOHdaVWxDYVZOdlFpTjVkWFZJZW5kTFVXdGFPRWhKTkUxTVZUTTFTR3BC

Ends Monday good luck
Faaaaack what a woman. Shes literally everything a man wants and needs. Sweet fucking drops. Keep em coming booooyooo!
>>117009
Nice drop thank you. She needs to make more videos though
aHR0cHM6Ly9nb2ZpbGUuaW8vZC9rMHJGMFU=

Compressed smaller file size for those of you with limited space.
Thankss for the drop
>>117163
literally the hottest female on here 🤯
She’s a smaller Sofia Rose. And I love her but damn this is perfection.
She's low-key about her OF until today, she finally put an IG story up called OF. Glad she's making her family proud
>>117332

People got to make more money somehow, none of us here are part of the Morality Police, she can keep showing them goods to her wallet's content Bro! More for us to look at
>>117332
Modern women are entitled as all get out and are low key hors most of them. So her showing her body for cash but also able to have a family that loves her and supports her whatever she does is good. Sex work is fine as long as you take care of yourself
i wish i taped her live last night. it was super dope
Anyone record the live?
she went live where?
>>117352

I saw it as well. I loved when she started squeezing her nipples to see if she can still lactitate. She was topless the whole time she was talking. Lovely voice. She really is the best looking woman on this website.
>>117453
Ayyy no way no1 recorded it
for wins
Damn nobody got screens shots of her live? Anybody that’s subbed to her got any new wins from her? Or upcoming wins? This chick is sensational!!
This chick is smoking hot I hope there’s more to come
I’m starting to think this chick is not serious about onlyfans and is just doing it to see how much money she can make. I gave her like $100 in tips and she keeps flaking on request.
Damn are you serious? Lol. Whats the point in doing that though? I get paying for her monthly $12 to see all her nudes but tossing more money and not getting anything but pictures or videos is not worth that kind of money for any chick. No matter how hot the girl is. Unless you get something in person from her then by all means. Thats why i just posted pictures shes got and might sub to her shit to upload her goodies on here for all to enjoy. Fuck it.
>>117703

Sorry, but that just sounds retarded. Why would you even do that? It's a tip, there's absolutely no obligation on her part to do anything..
>>117703

I said this from the jump. There's zero Interest from her. Barely any interaction. No actual promotion that's usefull she doesn't bring it up or link her profile on her actual social medias. Just pictures. Theres fan pages of LA Dodgers jersey customs showing pictures of her in her jerseys with her tits out with zero promotion and zero tagging. Horrible promoting.

She and her husband are doing this for a quick buck to pay for their latest kids bill and their recent move. She hasn't nentioned him so that you simps end up paying more
>>117703
>>117703
Also, you're a fucking idiot for giving her that amount of money. You're enabling her to keep doing that same kind of shit with the same kind of flakiness. When will you guys ever learn
Damn we know more about her than the FBI lmaooo. When i hear the word "tip" in terms of money its for common courtesy which implies you're not getting shit back most likely. That's how these gives get you dudes that throw away your money. 😂
Tipping in actual service and retail work is suggested because of the low-pay rate to the employee and often goes directly to the person who gave you their service. Not obligatory but a thank you, nothing else.

When an online platform like OF that has gained millions and millions of dollars in the past year alone decides to add a "tipping" section and labels it that, to each users posts, where it's heavily and universally implied and stated that tipping earns a reward or a beneficial response or "exclusive" content, it's no longer considered tipping.

Tipping is a one-way courtesy. It's a purchase, a transaction, if tipping is for content or item.

It's poorly worded by onlyfans and they won't change it cause they get their 20% by every content creators pay out regardless, and these girls take in more money than you would ever think, even if they aren't famous, it's usually enough to pay rent.

Tl;Dr: So yea, go ahead, and keep paying if your ok with the schemes and horrible service OF offers. Just know that there's zero refunds, zero customer service and none of these girls don't ever commit to shit.

It's the same thing when the same girls offered their exclusive snapchat and pulled the plug and made excuses to quit or not post as they please. Consistency and commitment is the service

You aren't shit to them, your money is.
>>117714
It’s all good I had some money to blow.and usually when I tip the chicks are quick to respond and provide excellent customer service. But it’s like I said this chick is just basically in it for a quick cash grab. She’s just gonna keep posting the same titty pics and teasing explicit content to keep the simps subbing
>>117701
dammn this girl is hot!
Re up on the mega pls
>>117830
There's literally a mirror in the thread you fucking idiot.
what a gorgeous woman!
This slut reminds me of an uglier, shorter, skinnier, and younger Sofia Rose. This is exactly what we did not need. Good job. you guys. Keep fucking without condoms.
>>118360
She's not a bad looking woman. She's about a 7 out of ten. Ill be honest I'd still fuck probably
This bitch is just teasing to see how much money she can make on onlyfans. She ain’t serious about putting out hot content. She ge having excuses up the azz for why she hasn’t come thru with request
Wtf bitch??? I never said I wouldn't fuck. I'd be a fool not to fuck her. What I said was she just like Sofia Rose except less sexy in every way n less talented. Another way I could've said it is an inferior copy or version of Sofia Rose. Therefor we don't rily need her in the sense that she is neither adding to the variety nor the quality.

7.5/10 is my final offer.
She's going live soon on her OF.
Her live streams are horrible and boring
>>118728
She's not doing Anal, DVP, DP and Gangbangs huh?
Bump
>>117701
those motherly nipples are incredible, her tits are just top tier, reminds me of j@zm1n gurr0l@ I hope some lactation content pops up
>>118409
Hey dude nobody gives a single FUCK about your opinion!
I agree, but why you mad? Maybe he's of an opinionated personality. Or maybe he can't control himself. Similar to your reaction, we may have no choice in the matter.
>>29933 (Dead)

This is precisely the type of thing that gets in the way of progress: BBWs with dorky husbands. When I watch a porno and an ssbbw is getting hammered by an african american with a 13 inch cock a common reaction is I just feel like wtf another bbc again? And I may move on to something else or continue watching and there's no problem. But when I see how in real life ssbbws have dorky husbands it gives me a strange feeling in the pit of my stomach.

Life is stranger than fiction as they say, and these things can be not just expected but predicted. Still, something about it doesn't sit right with me.

I see it all the time in public or at the mall and when I see it I always think that either only dorky dudes are who want the big girls or that fat women love money so they marry dorky dudes. None of that is good optics because it makes me not want to be seen in public with a fat woman cause I fear people thinking I'm a dork! Cause you know they're never going to think I'm swimming in cash so there's only one other possibility.

Especially in this new century with social media everybody around me is consumed and obsessed with optics and I don't know what to do about it or how to escape it. I don't personally care, and I don't mind being seen with a epicly huge blimp of a woman especially if she's my wife! Come on. But I don't want people looking at me thinking I'm a dork with no money, or worse! It is they who obsess over optics not me. I love fat hoes! I prefer them. I don't want fat women bringing problems into my life though. It's all about optics.

It's society's fault, sure, but all these dorks publicly partnered with bbws aren't helping! These bbws have to start dating some normal guys or something! For real.

I really hope one day we can get to a point as a society where fat women are seen as normal people so we can freely date fat women without the fear of bad optics or people assuming you're dumb or a celibate or a dork just because you're with a fat woman? That don't even make sense but whatever.

If anything it's people obsessing over their own image and physique as well as the apperances of other people around them, these people are rotten to the core always judging a book by its cover it just seems like most people now days are that way.
>>118865
Fuck your loser no one cares
>>118865

Thanks for posting your dissertation on a porn board. We're all here for the reading.
Anyone have her new video?
Bump
Why is is so hard on this site whether it be for tits or ass for dudes just to simply post about either or and quit the bullshit of putting their two cents into the fucking post. Sounding like a bunch of bitches that we look at posting their thoughts and feelings when in fact that goes out the window when we're looking at them throw themselves to be looked at on OF, Twitter, and Instagram. Just stfu and post the good fuckers. Dont type up a memoir about what you think is or isnt good about plain good ol big titties and booty. Man up!
>>118728
They do be boring. Her last live over the weekend was so lame. Even with her tits out is was still boring. All she talked about with her subs was jersey shore and ex baby daddy.
I’d just watch it with the volume off.
Bump
>>119563
Could someone upload one of her lives
bump
bump
She got a pretty face and some big tits but other than that she’s boring as hell. No personality, charm or charisma. Unsubbed from her only fans. Got tired of seeing the same titty post
My guy, 2.7 gig file for a 16 min love with no sound. Come on, compress that file size, tf
>120169

Lmao 98% of attractive women on this earth are boring with no personality, charm or charisma. Their looks compensate for everything… it’s always been this way
>>120169
No chick was born a OnlyFans Chick, that's a fact, it seems she's green and still figuring this shit out, same as any new Camgirl
Fuck Bump..
Whos going to be the hero to post more of here from OF
>>120184
Or you can do it yourself? tf
Re-up please
Bump
BUMP
Anyone got an update on her OF?? she said you posted some new pics including feet
>>121311
I endorse this message, minus the feet
head to toe appreciation feet will do too lol
Bump
New live stream?
I heard her live stream was crazy this weekend!! Possibly with other girls, does anybody know what went down?
I cant wait to see new stuff of her... Someone bless us with her new content Pleaaaaase
What happened on her last live??
love her pretty smile and big ass tits
Can someone please update us in detail what went down this weekend on her live pleeeeese!!!
Bump
WVVoU01HTklUVFpNZVRsNlkwZEdkV0V5U21oaWJXTjFXVEk1ZEV4NldtbE9XRlV5VEROYWNGcEhWblpNTWtveFl6TlNOVXN5WkhaYVIxSnNZek5OY21KSGJESmFVVDA5
>>122075

It says it's on private....
private video bro
Why do I play the video?
>>122108
It's the same vid of her live that was already on here.
Can someone please send the link that works for last weekend live
Bump
She looks like JohannaMaya but with a slightly skinnier body and more makeup. Put the both side by side and you'll see what I mean
>>122812
does johanna have a thread?
I thought she did but I can't find it
Holly shit!!! Does she have videos? I’m fucking down to subscribe and buy them fucking hooooot!!!!!
>>117215

Exactly what I thought she looks like she could be related to her
>>122662
I love that she replies to her dms on OF she’s a real one
Bump
anyone have the latest live video?
Bump
How do you have access to her OF page but you don't even properly rip the little that she's made. Come on now man, it ain't exclusive to anyone, just upload the shit

Use aloha browser to download it from OF to you phone and then just put it on a mega. So fucking easy
More content of her please...
Mf then you buy her onlyfans and you do it you ungrateful piece of shit
Fuck that guy
I’m not posting shit anymore
Someone upload her videos please
>>120184
>>124329
what is your fucking problem, dipshit? getting shit for free yet you complain, fuck off, you're the reason nobody likes sharing, kindly jump off a building
>>125243
fuck yea, Merry Christmas to us! Thanks Bro!
I know this the titty thread but she got any ass shakin vids? If onlyfans would accept my bank card I would have fully ripped this girl already, ain’t enough bbws on fansly
Bump
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>>127783 Holy shit this forum is on the brink of death. Not only is this board full of mediocre mainstream chicks that are usually easily searchable online, but they're all full of empty fucking bumps, like that's going to automatically trigger a response with an encoded MEGA link.

Can a mod just nuke all the threads with 7+ consecutive bumps? i.e. this fucking thread
>>127821
U gotta see the /booty/ board lmfao
>>127842 I'm almost scared to fucking look lol
So nobody posting her sex vids?
shes going live on her OF, whos gonna record it ??
Post her videos please
The real mvp
Bump
Bump
i want tits
where dem titties at?
Bump
Bump
Some of THE best nips on this site!
BUMP
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Bump
Those are some amazing tits!
Bump
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>>134130
thanks! those nips are magnificent
Bump
(7.2 MB, 278x480, gg.gif)
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U are the man!!! Please show us more
Is she posting sex vids? I'm sick of seeing these bland ass same titty pics. All talk but no wins. step it up guys or let this winless thread die please
>>137655
keep them titties coming!
>>137768

Before my subscription expired, she was selling a solo pussy play video for $30, but I didn't have money at the time. Anyone got it?
Bump
Ohhhhhh yea I know grazie very well. Hold on. Nevermind
Bump
>>137655
any more finds? been looking hi and lo, can't seem to find anything to contribute to the thread
bimp
She's active on her IG
This chick looks like a really young old lady!!
Please nobody whatever you do do not let this thread die it is the best thread here. I beg of you
Someone?
Yikes. Best thread!
I have those ones ^
Great tits but every pic is the same, yawn.
Put her in the begging thread. Waste of space. Everytime I look on here it's never any wins from her just begging with the same pics from her IG Twitter doing the same 2 3 poses
>>141855
homie, that's 90% of the forum, no one forces you to look
Delete this winless thread
STFU BUMP
Bump
any real content??
Any nude content is here?!!
Bump
>>142757
>>137250
>>144230

Uh oh. Be careful. I wouldn't want you falling out of that window into your imminent death. You are much too beautiful & the world needs you.
Any nude please?!
Is her onlyfans worth it? She has it on sale for $6.50 right now
>>144358
Nah it’s not worth it. Just same old tit pics
I would like to titty duck her
Beaners only be having big tits and no ass
>>144851
better than the BBL ass though, most of em look like they're wearing a flesh-toned diaper
>>144865 that's why I rather have a bad ass Puerto Rican bitch. You get both natural tits and ass
bump da bump
>>144851
Lol that’s soooo true. There’s this married Mexican chick that’s lives next door to me with big tits and thick thighs but her ass is flat. Her thick thighs make it look like she got a fatty but nope lol she stay flirting..a lot I know she be cheating her man
^^^Take pictures of your neighbor I’ll tell you if she flat! Lol

BUMP
>>146550
Why are you not fucking her brains out right now? titties for life man, get yours, give her what she needs
I'll take a bad ass Puerto Rican girl over a Mexicunt anyday. I know a guy who was stalked by a Mexicunt bitch with 3 kids and a man on Facebook
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>>146550
Bruh I knew a wetback from high school who just had tits and no ass. She was fake and twofaced as fuck. She has a little bastard now but I promise if I see her again Im spitting on her and her kid. Enjoy. I stole that shit from her MySpace
>>147121
She married but she be looking like she ain’t got no dick in her life lol. I’m not gonna front she’s a sexy mamacita but she don’t got no flavor. I like my women to have flavor
>>147144
>>147146
>>147147
>>147184
Why is it so difficult for fucking niggers to at least be funny when you talk down on people? That's how I know you black. I never used to hate niggers until I heard how cheesy you are. You sound like women when you on the internet. And youtubers? Forget about it.

Mexican women have either flat asses or huge dinosaur asses. So? Everybody know that. Everybody knows black people are ugly. Why do you keep repeating yourself every thread?
>>147250 Let me ask you something

Why is it so difficult for triggered nazis to let threads with no content die? Why must you shoehorn your opinions into dying threads? It's the same few threads that I visit on occasion hoping for new content, only to be met with a litter of racists claiming superiority on a fat-weeb site. If you're going to claim superiority, at least touch grass and get some bitches. Otherwise, remain a coomer like the rest of us and jerk off to women with fat tits
>>147257
You're right. Next time he should sage when he types. I don't claim my race is superior or my genes either and actually I thought you were responding to somebody else because your post was a mess. Thank you for your awesome comment. You are awesome and funny.
I find black bitches annoying AF these days
>>147250 internet tough guy LOL
Tits but no natural ass? Pass
>>147184
1. she the one who's married, not you, if she's down to fuck, it's her problem and consciousness, you just providing a service and getting one in return
2. fuck you mean flavor? my brother in christ, go suck some fat tits and shut the fuck up, she's a side piece, y'all ain't going public about it, if she's into you and she got some big tatas, what's the problem? spare pussy bro, she's your neighbor, ain't nothing better than closeby spare pussy, worst case scenario, she's bad in the sack and you just don't contact her no mo
>>147184
" don’t got no flavor". Double negative. You just said she has flavor, moron.
I should fuck a wetback. They've spent 20 years fucking me psychically and psychologically. Fucking with my head. Im entitled to do some fucking in return
>>147250
You sound like a white asshole who loves wetbacks but keeps it a secret from his buddies
I'm giving wins slowly r/gorditaplug
>>148719
good looking out man, she may have a little booty, but she sure knows how to shake it
>>149253

Hmmm 🔥🔥🔥
Full video available?!
Anyone would make all her new content especially videos on gofile?
she said she has feet content, have you got that also, i know it's not for everyone but i think they're nice
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I'll upload the live recordings later. File sizes are large with recordings being in highest quality and no settings to change it, also free file compressor websites don't like 1gb plus vids either
Damnnn, thanks bro. Drop of the year
>>151433
hells yes, thanks fo keeping the thread alive!
>>151433
thanks 4 keeping this thread alive!
appreciate the vids dude, anyone got her feet content also??

might be best to encode the gofiles so they last longer
Everyone she’s a torta… stop giving her attention already!!
>>150717

For fuck sake… look at her. deadass look at her face, chin, neck, stomach, and lonjas!! Yeah the tits are nice but who wants to see use/beat up pussy
How do u guys watch the go files? I’ve tried and nothing. Please help me. I love this thread
>>152314 speak for yourself guy, this is a BBW forum, just because the majority of the chicks on here are BBL-BBWs doesn't mean others of us don't appreciate real women, real MILFs. Know what you can do next time you see this thread? DONT CLICK ON IT. Problem solved.
>>152049
thanks chief! Keep these coming, we dig these over here!
>>152332
Maybe your connection isn't secure or not fast enough. Try using a VPN or download the files if you can
Amazing what makeup does
>>153307

Tell me about it. This chick has been aging in dog years the bitch
Her content is soooo boring. Same tit pics after tit pics
All y'all do is whine and gripe just enjoy the free boobs damn, and enjoy this might be my last drop if y'all not even liking this content https://gofile.io/d/N3wDy8
>>153453
I like it. I can look at her chest all day.
>>153453
don't listen to the whiney bitches, keep them titties comin bro!
aHR0cHM6Ly9kb29kLnBtL2QvOTdvZmhhb2kyZzJtCg==
aHR0cHM6Ly9kb29kLnBtL2QvaGM1cmp5Z2d6M3BzCg==
Booooring. Delete this wack azz same old titty pics thread
>>153859
you just bumped the thread by posting this reply, just ignore the thread
>>153859
hella thanks 4 bumpin da thread
Keep this thread alive!!! I get it, she just shows her tits in different outfits, but her tits are beautiful. I love looking at them. Just wish I could see a video of her but oh well. These guys here who post her pics are doing us a favor and letting us enjoy them. Keep it up guys
>>154565
I've posted gofile links to videos
>>154926

それらのビデオは火です
충돌
I don’t know how to open gofile links
>>155892
You can't be looking at porn and that remedial on the internet that you can't copy paste q link
>>156109
man, those tits are looking hella yummy
I wonder if she's hiding some milkiness from us, those nipples look ripe
>>116663
That's called vaginal prolapse. I hope she does her kegels.
>>157222
thanks for the free medical seminar
When you suck dick for too long as in dick sucking for too many hours it makes your breath stink. It happens often in the USA. Then when people smell your bresth it smells like penis then that's how they know you are a wh00re
Damn she's amazing
Dam she fine!!
Bbuump/.
Bumpcvtrctvvrc
Never let these tits die, as dead and annihilated as her pussy is
I fuck her about every week since Covid started.she started doing escorting when that lockdown bs hit and I was right on it. And we got close n shit. Been following her for a while, but never paid for shit. She’s not THAT hot but wow her knockers are massive! I haven’t paid for her physical services but the trade off is she wouldn’t let me record anything. Sexy bitch!
Not dying. Keep it alive.
Amazing Latina.
I think she has a b/g anal video now
>>163062
I hope so. If she does I’ll sub again.
bump me now
This thread is dead. Nobody wants to admit it but her content is trash and people unsubscribe from her onlyfans. That’s why we haven’t seen any new wins in long time. Even the boys on Reddit gave up on her.
>>163938
I unsubscribed last month. I wonder if I've missed anything
>>163962
Seeing as nobody is leaking anything probably nothing much expect the same old titty pics
>>163971

Can someone repost the mega link?
Bump don’t let this die 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼
Mods delete this thread. It’s been dead for months. Looks like the bros got bored of the same old titty pics
Any more stuuf?
Is this thread dead? 😞 anyone with new stuff ?
>>166503
Nah this thread is dead. Hasn’t been any new stuff posted in 2 months. Her content is boring and I guess dudes got tired of the same old tit pics. Mods need to trash this thread

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