I figured we could start a thread to tackle writing problems and give writing tips at greater length than in the Community Salt Thread. I'm no University lecturer or anything, I just read a few books which I'm gonna cut up and paste according to what I think is most relevant about writing generally, with the occasional personal insight along the lines of WG storywriting if I have any. Any other Anons with good writing advice feel free to share

>There have been thousands, if not millions, of stories.So what makes each of them a story? What do all stories do? What is the storyteller both revealing to and hiding from the audience?

>KEY POINT: All stories are a form of communicationt hat expresses the dramatic code.The dramatic code, embedded deep in the human psyche, is an artistic description of how a person can grow or evolve. This code is also a process going on underneath
every story. The storyteller hides this process beneath particular characters and actions. But the code of growth is what the audience ultimately takes from a good story.

>Let's look at the dramatic code in its simplest form.In the dramatic code, change is fueled by desire. The "story world" doesn't boil down to "I think, therefore I am "but rather "I want, therefore I am."

>Desire in all of its facets is what makes the world go around. It is what propels all conscious, living things and gives them direction. A story tracks what a person wants, what he'll do to get it, and what costs he'll have to pay along the way.

>Once a character has a desire, the story "walks" on two "legs": acting and learning. A character pursuing a desire takes actions to get what he wants, and he learns new information about better ways to get it. Whenever he learns new information, he makes a decision and changes his course of action.All stories move in this way.

> But some story forms highlight one of these activities over the other. The genres that highlight taking action the most are myth and its later version, the action form.

>The genres that highlight learning the most are the detective story and the multiperspective drama.

>Any character who goes after a desire and is impeded is forced to struggle (otherwise the story is over). And that struggle makes him change. So the ultimate goal of the dramatic code, and of the storyteller, is to present a change in a character or to illustrate why that change did not occur.

>The different forms of storytelling frame human change in differing ways:

>■ Myth tends to show the widest character arc, from birth to death and from animal to divine.

>■ Plays typically focus on the main character's moment of decision.

>■ Film (especially American film) shows the small
change a character might undergo by seeking a limited goal with great intensity.

>■ Classic short stories usually track a few events that lead the character to gain a single important insight.

>■ Serious novels typically depict how a person interacts and changes within an entire society or show the precise mental and emotional processes leading up to his change.

>■ Television drama shows a number of characters in a "mini society" struggling to change simultaneously.

>Drama is a code of maturity. The focal point is the moment of change, the impact, when a person breaks free of habits and weaknesses and ghosts from his past and transforms to a richer and fuller self.

>The dramatic code expresses the idea that human beings can become a better version of themselves, psychologically and morally.And that's why people love it.

>KEY POINT: Stories don't show the audience the "real world"; they show the story world. The story world isn't a copy of life as it is. It's life as human beings imagine it could be. It is human life condensed and heightened so that the audience can gain a better understanding of how life itself works.

>>4138
>■ Film (especially American film) shows the small change a character might undergo by seeking a limited goal with great intensity.

I saw a guy in the Salt thread asking how to write a story without it get mega long, but also feeling that shorter stories are only good for rapid wg. Maybe you could approach it like a sort of 'novel-film'.
Maybe try analyzing films adapted from novels, see what changes they made for expediency.

And actually, there are a few films adapted from very short novels/ short stories, Like Apocalypse Now-Heart of Darkness, and Death in Venice. Stories like these might be worthy inspiration

>A great story describes human beings going through an organic process.But it is also a living body unto itself.

>Even the simplest children's story is made up of many parts, or subsystems, that connect with and feed off one another.

>KEY POINT: Each subsystem of the story consists of a web of elements that help define and differentiate the other elements.

>No individual element in your story, including the hero, will work unless you first create it and define it in relation to all the other elements

>To see how an organic story moves, let's look at nature. Like the storyteller, nature often connects elements in some kind of sequence.

>Nature uses a few basic patterns (and a number of variations) to connect elements in a sequence, including linear, meandering, spiral, branching, and explosive.Storytellers use these same patterns, individually and in combination, to connect story events over time. The linear and explosive patterns are at the opposite extremes.

>The linear story tracks a single main character from beginning to end.It implies a historical or biological explanation for what happens. Most Hollywood films are linear. They focus on a single hero who pursues a particular desire with great intensity. The audience witnesses the history of how the hero goes after his desire and is changed as a result.
>(Basically the desire is a strong,specific one,though it certainly might be life-changing.It is suited for shorter, 'one-track' storylines; you tend to notice that many movies cover a fairly brief period of time, only a few days or months of the characters life. I think Risky Business and Death in Venice are good examples.)

>The meandering story follows a winding path without apparent direction.Myths like the Odyssey; comic journey stories like Don Quixote, Tom Jones, Adventures of Huckleberry Finn,Little Big Man, and Flirting with Disaster; and many of Charles Dickens's stories, such as David Copperfield, take the meandering form.The hero has a desire, but it is not intense; he covers a great deal of territory in a haphazard way; and he encounters a number of characters from different levels of society.
>(The desire here is more general and takes a longer time to fulfill.You tend to see it in novels,(Though a lot of novels these days seem to take a 'movie' approach, of shorter and stronger desires), like Great Expectations, or Madame Bovary

>>4137 (OP)
>>>/elite/
Otherwise I suggest turning it into a WG comic thread or whatever, so that it feeds content while you guys talk about the intended topic.

Try /elite/, moron.

>The spiral story takes a path that circles inward to the center Thrillers like Vertigo,Blow-Up,The Conversation, and Memento typically favor the spiral, in which a character keeps returning to a single event or memory and explores it at progressively deeper levels

>A branching story is a system of paths that extend from a few central points by splitting and adding smaller and smaller parts. In storytelling, each branch usually represents a complete society in detail or a detailed stage of the same society that the hero explores. The branching form is found in more advanced fiction,such as social fantasies like Gulliver's Travels and It's a Wonderful Life or in multiple-hero stories like Nashville, American Graffiti, and Traffic.

>An explosive story has multiple paths that extend simultaneously.In a story, you can't show the audience a number of elements all at once,even for a single scene, because you have to tell one thing after another; so, strictly speaking,there are no explosive stories. But you can give the appearance of simultaneity. In film, this is done with the technique of the crosscut.

(You can crosscut in books too. You've probably read a book that jumps between two or more characters/situations in one chapter during a rapid action scene. The novel Jurassic Park does this well)

>Stories that show (the appearance of) simultaneous action imply a comparative explanation for what happens.By seeing a number of elements all at once, the audience grasps the key idea embedded in each element.These stories also put more emphasis on exploring the story world, showing the connections between the various elements there and how everyone fits, or doesn't fit, within the whole.

>Stories that emphasize simultaneous action tend to use a branching structure and include American Graffiti, Pulp Fiction, Traffic, Syriana, Crash, Nashville, Tristram Shandy,Ulysses, Last Year at Marienbad, Ragtime, The Canterbury Tales, L.A. Confidential, and Hannah and Her Sisters.Each represents a different combination of linear and simultaneous storytelling, but each emphasizes characters existing together in the story world as opposed to a single character developing from beginning to end.

A good story starts with a premise. The premise is your story stated in one sentence. It is the simplest combination of character and plot and typically consists of some event that starts the action,some sense of the main character, and some sense of the outcome of the story.

Some examples:

>■ The Godfather:The youngest son of a Mafia family takes revenge on the men who shot his father and becomes the new Godfather.

>■ Casablanca: A tough American expatriate rediscovers an old flame only to give her up so that he can fight the Nazis

>■ Star Wars: When a princess falls into mortal danger,a young man uses his skills as a fighter to save her and defeat the evil forces of a galactic empire.

Here are some from WG stories I like:

>Fed Up (by polarisdreamer): A vindictive young woman gains weight on purpose to make a point to her overweight husband and get him to lose weight

>Kelri's Gain (by juxtaterrestrial): A competitive eater agrees to test a new appetite enchancing drug to enable her to win more competitions

>Your premise is your inspiration. It's the "lightbulb" moment when you say, "Now that would make a terrific story," and that excitement gives you the perseverance to go through months, even years, of hard writing.

>This leads to another important point: for better or worse,the premise is also your prison. As soon as you decide to pursue one idea, there are potentially thousands of ideas that you won't be writing about. So you'd better be happy with the special world you've chosen.

>The big reason so many writers fail here is that they don't know how to develop the idea, how to dig out the gold that's buried within it. They don't realize that the great value of a premise is that it allows you to explore the full story,and the many forms it might take, before you actually write it.

>>4144
I asked if this would be a good idea on the Salt thread. A few people were interested.

>>4143
based and true

>Many also don't know the inherent structural weakness found in any high-concept premise: it gives you only two or three scenes. These are the scenes just before and after the twist that makes your premise unique.

>The average feature film has forty to seventy scenes. A novel may have double or triple that number. Only by knowing the craft of storytelling can you overcome the limitations of the high-concept and tell the whole story successfully.

>The first technique for finding the gold in an idea is time.Take a lot of it at the beginning of the writing process.Don't make the amateurish mistake of getting a hot premise and immediately running off to write scenes. You'll get twenty to thirty pages into the story and run into a dead end you can't escape.

>One of the biggest reasons writers fail at the premise stage is that they don't know how to spot their story's true potential. This takes experience as well as technique. What you're looking for here is where the idea might go, how it might blossom. Don't jump on a single possibility righ taway, even if it looks really good.

>KEY POINT: Explore your options. The intent here is to brainstorm the many different paths the idea can take and then to choose the best one.

>One technique for exploring possibilities is to see if anything is promised by the idea. Some ideas generate certain expectations, things that must happen to satisfy the audience if this idea were to play out in a full story. These "promises" can lead you to the best option for developing the idea.

>A more valuable technique for seeing what's possible in the idea is to ask yourself, "What if. . . ?" The "what if" question leads to two places: your story idea and your own mind. It helps you define what is allowed in the story world and what is not. It also helps you explore your mind as it plays in this make-believe landscape. The more often you ask "What if. . . ?" the more fully you can inhabit this landscape, flesh out its details, and make it compelling for an audience.

>The point here is to let your mind go free. Don't censor or judge yourself. Don't ever tell yourself that any idea you come up with is stupid. "Stupid" ideas often lead to creative breakthroughs.

>>4144
I don't really like the idea of /elite/ existing frankly. It gets negative traffic and splits focus into a zillion rarely bumped threads, preventing any sort of in-depth conversation from taking place. /bbwdraw/ might as well be the "main" board for fictional content at this point given the number of meta threads allowed to exist and proportional traffic it gets, so maybe writing discussion would be done better service as a single general here

That said, >>4143 brings up an intriguing point: how should comic writing meaningfully differ from conventional writing? What should be conveyed via dialogue/narration versus drawn imagery? Should pacing differ? How does the artist's technical skill and rate of completion factor into it? Seems to be a much less well-understand medium than fapfics since no one can really seem to come to a consensus on which, if any, existing weight gain comics represent a gold standard.

>>4155
>I don't really like the idea of /elite/ existing frankly. It gets negative traffic and splits focus into a zillion rarely bumped threads, preventing any sort of in-depth conversation from taking place. /bbwdraw/ might as well be the "main" board for fictional content at this point given the number of meta threads allowed to exist and proportional traffic it gets, so maybe writing discussion would be done better service as a single general here

This is another reason why I started this thread here.

>That said, >>4143 brings up an intriguing point: how should comic writing meaningfully differ from conventional writing? What should be conveyed via dialogue/narration versus drawn imagery? Should pacing differ? How does the artist's technical skill and rate of completion factor into it? Seems to be a much less well-understand medium than fapfics since no one can really seem to come to a consensus on which, if any, existing weight gain comics represent a gold standard.

I'm not sure why I blanked out on this sso long but actually there are a lot of instructionals that teach you about drawing (writing) comics. Will Eisner's Comics & Sequential Art is my favourite by far.
As for the gold standard of WG comics I think anything by Fusa/Tassel is really good.

A pdf file for Eisner's Sequential Art

https://alphalight.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/will-eisner-theory-of-comics-sequential-art.pdf

Another great example, and one I've never seen anyone talk about is Joy Gorge.
It's a very old WG comic, and ran in BUF magazine in the 1980s

>>4155
I'd rather it stay here and keep kicking from having text pictures posted so that it pisses off the people who don't like any bit of talk in threads.

>no one can really seem to come to a consensus on which, if any, existing weight gain comics represent a gold standard
Because no one has even reached basic comics.

>To understand this process better, let's look at some stories that have already been written and play around with what the authors might have been thinking as they explored the deeper possibilities of their premise ideas.

>The Godfather
>A story about a Mafia family promises ruthless killers and violent crime. But what if you make the head of the family much bigger, make him a kind of king in America? What if he is the head of the dark side of America, just as powerful in the underworld as the president is in official America Because this man is a king, you could create grand tragedy, a Shakespearean fall and rise where one king dies and another takes his place. What if you turn a simple crime story into a dark American epic?

>Big
>A boy who suddenly wakes up to find he is a full-grown man promises to be a fun comedic fantasy. But what if you write a fantasy not set in some far-off, bizarre world but in a world an
average kid would recognize? What if you send him to a real boy's Utopia, a toy company, and let him go out with a pretty,sexy woman? And what if the story isn't just about a boy getting big physically but one that shows the ideal blend of man and boy for living a happy adult life?

What would be some good ideas to write an interesting story about immobility that doesn't dwell too much on slobbiness or health issues? I like the concept itself but everytime I try to think and write something around it I just can't come up with something interesting enough for a longer story and I don't really know any story I could use for inspiration.

>>4161
Peril stories work really well with immobility where the main character is in danger but trapped in bed.

>>4161
Peril stories work really well with immobility where the main character is in danger but trapped in bed. The story can either end with the main character succumbing to the danger or it can continue with other characters moving the main character to safety.

I've been a frustrated amateur writer for most of my life and finally found my groove a few years ago with fat/WG fic. My stuff tends to be plot-heavy, and my ideal is to write a good story but with fat chicks and WG rather than the other way around.

That said, I'm always conscious of not going on too long without serving the readers a little of what they came for. Self-indulgent writing is bad writing in my book, whatever the genre. I don't necessarily have a ratio in my head, but I won't go, say, 5k words without a juicy description or at least a fatty appearance, but I might go 2k. What do you guys think?

>>4164
I agree, and I love this kind of story in general. I've tried to write a few but I get bogged down with logistics and lose interest. Do you have any offhand examples of "peril" stories you like?

>>4198
Story with a "bad end": https://www.deviantart.com/angelpax/art/Coming-in-the-Night-XWG-SSBBW-Horror-851127361
Story with a "good end": https://www.deviantart.com/shadydancer1/art/The-Prince-s-Private-Pleasures-Revealed-WG-716256906

I have an idea for a multipart story involving the obscure-ish nowadays Kemono Friends. 2017 12 Episode Anime specifically. The idea was to corrupt episodes’ premises to include weight gain. Some of which is straight forward, such as the Bossus, robotic and automatic helpers left behind by humanity to take care of Animal Girl population malfunctioning in a way that would lead to over-doing it on food distribution among other things. The idea is in-between its original stories the two protagonists of the Anime, Kaban at her original size, and Serval already getting rather pudgy would gradually put on the weight. Their adventures now also leading to those around them too put on the pounds in their wake. An epidemic highlighted by the Arai-San and Fennec duo who were always on the two girls’ tail (one literal) at the aftermaths anyway, who yes too would gain weight.

The point being, any suggestions on how to scale the weight gain? If the two expand out too quickly they aren’t going to be able to get to the end, (still mobile anyway), but then there’s also the dilemma of expandIng out too slowly. There is the benefit at of Serval being anomalously agile and full of strength even in the face of extra padding, Kaban not so much. There is also not shoving it in your face and allowing the fetishy how’re they gonna gain this time side to not betray the story. Right now I’m imagining it’s a little each “episode,” while the side characters are allowed to be hit harder with weight gain.

>>4202 Pretty much wanted to throw this idea out somewhere to anybody, (I don’t know personally obviously,) since it’s been eating away at me. I’m sorry if this is not using the thread in the correct way.

>>4197
I’m in the same boat, I’ve dabbled in writing WG stories but haven’t published any since they’re quite plot heavy. The community seems to not want to go more than a few paragraphs/couple hundred words without some fattywank. Which is fair enough but discouraging.

>>4204
That's true, plot-heavy stuff is always gonna be a niche, but I soldier on because that's all I'm interested in writing. I get 4-6k views per DA story and a handful of faves, but the folks who like my stuff seem to •really• like it so that makes up for the lack of interest otherwise.

There's a loose crew of us on DA with similar aesthetics, no specific group but many of us wound up in the "fishery awards," created by swahilimonkfish earlier this year. It was semi-serious as an awards thing but makes for a handy catalog of WG/fatfic writers who take the writing as seriously as the WG/fat. (Swahilimonkfish himself is an excellent writer too, imo.)

https://www.deviantart.com/swahilimonkfish/art/The-Fishery-Awards-2022-Ceremony-911174517

>>4200
Great stuff — thanks!

My issues are A remembering where I was going with plots, B. Not making twenty page chapters for thirty plot storiesand c, finishing things.

>>4205

One of us, one of us.

>>4206
>remembering where I was going with plots

I got into outlining, way later than I should have. I always thought it would kill the thrill of making shit up on the spot — a dopamine hit like no other for me. But I was wasting too many precious hours taking stories down blind alleys and then hitting a wall plot-wise or just losing inspiration.

I do a hybrid thing now, where I write maybe 5-10k words to get my head into it and then double back and start outlining. It's not a perfect system but it's way more efficient than winging it. I have a graveyard of unfinished stories both on my hard drive and DA page where I thought I could inspo my way through them.

One problem with outlining is that sometimes it feels like I'm just writing from plot point to plot point, connecting the dots, but there are strategies for that too. For instance I'll skip to another part of the outline that I am jazzed about and then double back later.

>finishing things

We all struggle with this, as the initial buzz of setting up a story is so much more fun and satisfying than seeing it through. (That creativity dopamine I was talkling about.) I do find if I push it far enough where I can see an end in sight, the wrap up can be almost as fun as the set-up. Getting there can feel like a million miles though.

>One of us, one of us.

Indeed — mrwrong1 here, if you haven't guessed. I didn't identify myself because I didn't want this to seem like promo for my own stuff. Or for people to say "if you know all this, why do you still suck so much?" lol.

I need some help with word choice. I want to use onomatopeia to break up the text so it not just walls of descriptions. The problem is that I can't find a list of indigestion or stomach gurgling noises. I know this is a very spefic thing to ask for in this thread but I thought writers would know how to deal with weird words for weird sounds.

>>4210
I don't have any specific word suggestions but I would cut loose and type it out like scat singing, all the sounds you hear in your head, and see which ones work.

BTW I like what you're trying to do. I've used "flubber" as a verb a few times, as in "she flubbered across the room." It makes zero literal sense but I think it says so much.

>>4207
I just want to say this is a huge help Anon. And the Anon’s opening speeches at the beginning has hit like a bunch of helpful bricks. I’m glad we have this thread. I would’ve never thought of it.

>>4202
I’m going to put this off to focus on something smaller scale instead. I’m thinking of making a one-off story about it instead this time taking place in the second season. Spoilers I guess.

Kaban, now alone on a new island, has opted to bunk with the Professors at a research lab, whom on the old island she had previously met. The problem arising is the two Professors are huge foodies, while the lonely Kaban is an astounding cook, because of that in this one-off over Kaban’s qualifications the two girls (while don’t get me wrong still caring about her a good bit) are largely more interested in the food they can get out of her instead.

Taking place much later after the moving in, similar to provided one-off comic by MCgunngu, the idea is sparked by the loss of her friend, Kaban begins to become indulgent and fat, finding happiness in her new job in-between preparing food for herself and her two friends.

Each time there is a transition, it reaches the scenario of The Professors pointing out that Kaban has gotten big, followed by them being if not just as big as well completely unaware.

With each time Kaban more indulgent, and her and The Professors being at least twice as fat. Any suggestions/feedback for something like this?

>>4222
For a similar sequence of events while apologizing for it being Kemono friends there are these off the top of my head: https://www.deviantart.com/amplealphabet/art/Commission-Corpulent-Friends-Kemono-Friends-WG-799519397 for the way of writing progression and https://www.deviantart.com/sir-wales/art/Please-Don-t-Feed-the-Friends-WG-BBW-799908181 for the other aspects.

>>4222
It’s better to me to have a small group who really enjoy what you’ve created over a large group who will skim through it and then not think of it again, not that there’s anything wrong with the latter. It’s just not the kinds of stories that are for me as a writer and all that.

>>4205
It’s better to me personally to have a small group who really enjoy what you’ve created over a large group who will read it once and then not think of it again, not that there’s anything wrong with the latter. It’s just not the kinds of stories that are for me as a writer and all that. You’re not alone friend.

>>4203
The hardest part of starting community-wise is finding where your community is.It might take awhile, but after awhile you might find it.

>>4154
That’s cute. And not because of a fetish.

>>4226
That is not to say that is an inherent quality of stories either simple or short.

>>4226
I'm gonna do what I'm gonna do anyway so that's nice to hear lol.

Here my story idea

lIdea 22: fart factories

Plot: a group of people sign up for a experiment to see if human gas can be a power source if their very biology is altered to produce more gas than a normal human being. After receiving the alterations, the group slowly descends into a maddening trance as they enjoy turning their slim and normal bodies into large, green skinned blobs that are dehumanized as gasbags.

Where to post?

I've written something that I think it's quite OK to say the least, I've written normal stuff before but it's my first try ever writing erotic literature, and I'd like to post. Where should I do it? DA? Ao3?

Any tips for are appreciated.

>>4324
From my experience DA is the most vital, popular place. Dimensions, Fantasy Feeder, and Curvage are distant 2nd, 3rd etc.

>>4161
What if immobility isn’t the limitation, but the asset? Is there a situation/world where being so fat would accidentally advantage the character?

>>4205
Fishery Awards was super helpful in elevating some great (recent) writing

>>4356
On that note I have a vague idea about buoyancy. As we all know fat is less dense than water, so fat people float better. Salt water is denser than non- and in places like the Dead Sea it's impossible for anyone to drown — it's actually hard to stay fully submerged. So what about a really low density (soft) fat person in a super-salty body of water — would they just float on top, like a leaf? That seems like something to base a story around. Like, a boat capsizes and 10 people are able to use a USBBW as a life raft. Basically helpless on land, she winds up being the most crucial person to everyone's survival.

>>4363
it sounds interesting, but... If it's boring to say, it's not very safe for USSBBW.

First, the temperature of the ocean water. It is logical that it is colder than the human body, and fat may save, but not for long. I don't think that the generated human heat is enough for normal life.

And secondly, although I am not sure about it, I have heard about one Indochinese torture. A person is placed in water, a pool or something, not necessarily even cold. And leave it in the water for a day. For weeks. For a month. The skin that will be in the water will simply be erased, it will hurt very much. The chance of even dying from this is high.

>>4369
Good points... But say the water is warm (Gulf of Mexico in late summer) and the time period is hours rather than days. Could work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ypD6t1_JAMg

For questions regarding the effects of long periods of submersion in water.

>>4207
Do you have any advice on how to finish a story? Either how to tie up a plot or just literally what words to use without slapping on a 'the end'